Europe will become more American because of Trump

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
11/17/2016 at 13:39 • Filed to: None

At least that’s the feeling I get from talking to Europeans. A German guy living in Málaga was telling me that uncertainty, followed by paranoia will most likely become common words in Germany. Many Spanish feel the same. More people support the idea of a federal Europe, with common armed forces, increased defense budgets and centralized security agencies. Some politicians here seem to warm up on proxy wars too. Some Europeans seem to think that we betrayed them, and NATO by electing a guy who admires Vladimir Putin and his ways.

DISCUSSION (28)

Dslay04 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:41

we gotta do a better job of stopping voter suppression and more voter turnout.

TheHondaBro > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:42

Is... Is that Steve Martin as Jacque Clouseau superimposed on James Bond in the Quantum of Solace movie poster?

EL_ULY > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:46

people in absolute fear of the sort of things they take in from the news is hilarious to me :]

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:46

“Some Europeans seem to think that we betrayed them, and NATO by electing a guy who admires Vladimir Putin and his ways.”

Because we did?

Noah - Now with more boost. > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:49

sorry Euro oppos. Here in New England, we tried... this is so horrible :..(

Warren/Sanders 2020!

Future next gen S2000 owner > Dslay04
11/17/2016 at 13:54

Lol, wait. Wut?

Probenja > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:57

I do agree in some ways with Trump in the inmigration problems that are a big deal in Europe as not all of those people are good guys and they are cheap labour so they prefer hiring them instead of people from their own country.

I also see that with all of the social media, the news are instant so when a country gets attacked all others get offensive so people want more forces to avoid tragedies at all cost. Although i’m not sure if that happened before too.

Krieger (@FSKrieger22) > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 13:57

That might be due to the sample size.

While the concept of a more federal Europe works well on paper (and probably should have been done so the Euro had a chance of working to begin with), the enmity between member nations at this stage seems to suggest that things are unlikely to lean that way, especially with Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders still in politics.

duurtlang > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 14:00

It has very little to do with Trump. Remember the Brexit referendum? The popularity of populist and often somewhat to full on racist parties in many parts of Europe? What’s happening in the US with Trump has been happening in Europe simultaneously. I’d go so far as saying that the US is following our lead, not the other way around. The biggest difference is that Trump got (almost) half the votes, while the European democracies tend to be more representative and diverse, so the populists don’t tend to get half the votes.

People, especially the more low brow voters, tend to be fed up with the so called ‘elite’. Some of their worries are legitimate, some are simply stupid, but the fact of the matter is that they feel like they’re not represented properly. This is strengthened by circle jerk social media (facebook) echo chambers. These people vote, and they vote with their gut. We’ve seen the results. It’s not unique to the US or anywhere else, it’s a global trend. At least in the West.

Leon711 > duurtlang
11/17/2016 at 14:08

On behalf of the many millions who wanted to retain the intrinsic link to our European brothers and sisters, sorry.

djmt1 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 14:12

You need to talk to more Europeans. A lot more Europeans. We’ve been blindsided first by Austria, then Brexit and now Trump. More people do not want a federal Europe and those that don’t are gaining support fast, really fucking fast.

The EU is in a tough place at the moment and while I’m not gonna go full Farage and cast it off as a flawed entity doomed to fail, I’m at least gonna leave the possibility open until after the votes in France, Germany, Italy and Holland because if the right wing parties win then we are in for some interesting times ahead.

duurtlang > Leon711
11/17/2016 at 14:15

Don’t worry about it. I bet we’d see a similar thing where I live. It’s rare for people to actually listen to rational arguments rather than irrational gut feelings strengthened by lying assholes with an agenda. I’m not in any way arguing there were zero decent arguments in favor of Brexit (or Trump, or...), but the decent arguments weren’t typically the ones convincing voters.

Leon711 > duurtlang
11/17/2016 at 14:36

We arguably had a good position as one of the stronger economies and our market wasn’t tied to the Euro. Sadly, people believed the lies fed to them by the newspapers and crap on facebook. Even if free movement ends, the trade deals we’d need to set up will include immigration as became obvious in recent talks with India.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Noah - Now with more boost.
11/17/2016 at 15:21

The American definiton of socialism is cringeworthy for Europeans but ‘too radical’ for many Americans sadly. You guys miss out on much, like healthcare for example.

BorkBorkBjork > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
11/17/2016 at 15:29

Well, the EU has 6 times the population and 16 times the GDP of Russia. I don’t particularly see why the United States needs to spend money defending the EU from Russia when we have a brushfire starting in the South China Sea.

Sam > Dslay04
11/17/2016 at 15:29

Or field a candidate that isn’t literally the worst v2 to Trump’s v1.

Sam > djmt1
11/17/2016 at 15:32

I think the Brexit switch may only be flipped partially or not at all. Seems like the government is dragging their heels a bit, given that they can leave any time.

BorkBorkBjork > duurtlang
11/17/2016 at 15:36

People (mostly) don’t vote with their gut, they vote with their wallet. Trump got elected because rural areas of this country have been decimated for the past 20 years by losses in manufacturing and other blue collar labor. Both parties have let these people down, and thats why an outsider got elected. That is not to say that Trump has any real plan to fix these issues, but at least he mentioned it. We need to understand that the United States is not just a culturally diverse nation, we are also economically diverse, and there are huge swaths of this country that simply cannot make up manufacturing job losses with service industry jobs (like urban areas can).

Sam > Probenja
11/17/2016 at 15:36

If their labour is that cheap, would people from the countries actually want the jobs? Because in America immigrants, mostly illegal, do jobs that Americans wouldn’t even want in the first place. No average American is going to pick cotton 12hrs a day, 5 days a week, with no benefits, for 5 dollars an hour.

Dslay04 > Sam
11/17/2016 at 15:37

I agree. Better candidate selection is needed, but that is more of a one time issue. Voter Suppression and turnout are major long-term issues that need to be fixed.

Sam > Dslay04
11/17/2016 at 15:39

It isn’t wha t lost her the election though. She was an awful candidate that didn’t get normal, non-suppressed people to vote. So a different candidate may be a long term concern, especially if she won’t take no for an answer an runs in 2020.

Dslay04 > Sam
11/17/2016 at 15:45

That’s why I also mentioned voter turnout.

Normal? really dude.

She’s clearly done after this. She’ll be too old to run by then. It’ll probably be Corey Booker in 2020. I thought he should of ran this time.

duurtlang > BorkBorkBjork
11/17/2016 at 15:49

True, but like you said he didn’t come with real solutions to their problems. He’s not going to help their wallets. He did address their problems and worries and did so in a way they wanted to hear, so they felt listened to. Taken seriously. That’s the whole point. It’s not about actually helping those people, it’s about giving them the feeling they’re being listened to. That’s the general appeal in my perception.

That’s what all those populist politicians (Trump, Farage, Wilders, Le Pen, you name them) do; address real and perceived problems lower and lower middle class people have and offer simplistic bullshit solutions, all while the conventional politicians either keep quiet or offer difficult and/or nuanced solutions that don’t sound appealing. Preferring simplistic bullshit over difficult nuance is what I’d consider a gut reaction, but that’s just my definition.

To be clear, I’m not in any way defending Clinton here. She’s a clear example of what’s wrong with the ‘system’, it’s just that in my opinion someone like Trump is even worse.

djmt1 > Sam
11/17/2016 at 16:17

Officially speaking Brexit is still scheduled for march but it could all come crashing down if Parliament votes against repealing the European Communities Act of ‘72. To think Brexit was all about restoring parliamentary sovereignty and that very thing might just kill it dead.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Sam
11/17/2016 at 16:24

Most of these immigrants aren’t even allowed to work lol.

Sam > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
11/17/2016 at 16:37

“Allowed”.

wiffleballtony > TheHondaBro
11/17/2016 at 19:29

It’s pretty impressive

Noah - Now with more boost. > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
11/17/2016 at 19:43

Exactly. Why don’t we all deserve care when we’re sick? It makes me so upset that 50% of this country is determined to destroy all of the equality-promoting legislation liberals have put in place over the last 8 years. I don’t understand how these people can claim moral superiority when they’re getting all riled up about legislation put in place to make lives easier, happier, healthier, and more fair.